RE: [oc] Handel-C replacement, name is done now for the coding.

[suja_36@yahoo.com]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul McFeeters" <paul.mcfeeters@n... > 
To: <cores@o... > 
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:13:23 -0000 
Subject: RE: [oc] Handel-C replacement, name is done now for the 
coding. 

> 
> 
> Martin, 
> 
> <snip bit about CPU+Linux Kernel on chip> 
> 
> > Sounds very ambitious - I'd start by flashing some lights :-)  
> I have to 
> say the Celoxica's 
> > video demos are *very* impressive, generating VGA real-time 
> from C 
> impresses the pants off 
> > most softies, so a demo board with a RAMDAC on would be 
> nice... 
> 
> But I am ambitious, yes I have flashed lights (not in my C program 
> yet just 
> VHDL) but I like 
> to dream of tomorrow and make it happen. Did it for 14 years as a 
> programmer 
> and only failed 
> twice (pesky fractal image compression using higher maths than I 
> ever 
> studied!). Admittedly it 
> was a few years ago but 2 years spent working on new compilers 
> should help 
> me out with parsing C. 
> A couple of resisters attached to an FPGA and I will have my own 
> 12bit 
> (hopefully soon 24bit) 
> VGA interface according to the designs I've found. I was hoping to 
> use the 
> Block RAM SRAM units 
> but at only 512bytes each my initial screens would be rather blocky 
>  shall 
> we say? Monochrome I 
> could do say 70 x 50 pixels off one but will use them for higher 
> resolutions 
> for now. That 
> reminds me Tony has a pre-made VGA connector for my boards so will 
> look to 
> order one or two of 
> those for later. 
> 
> > They generate directly to EDIF normally, although they do have 
> a VHDL 
> output flow now.  YOu 
> > might get some info from some of the papers written about 
> Handel-C when it 
> was still an academic 
> > thing. 
> 
> I did try to find some of them but Oxford (where the academic 
> papers were 
> written have removed them 
> probably at the bequest of Mr. Page). I did place call for XNF and 
> EDIF 
> information but I suspect 
> going to Verilog would be so much easier than straight into 
> EDIF/XNF for now 
> (if not pls email me). 
> I'm studying Verilog at the moment as VHDL (or maybe just Webpack) 
> is giving 
> me so much grief its 
> unreal. Even a simple 8 stage FSM I did, clocked at 1Hz doesn't 
> work right 
> with Webpack not to 
> mention some of the freaky errors it likes to produce at perfectly 
> legal 
> things like using 
> functions or procedures, I don't need extra headaches during 
> development 
> phases. 
> 
> > See my other reply on sequential processing... 
> 
> Probably already have, sequential processing is rather akin to the 
> first 
> single cylinder steam engine. 
> Yes it did open up a world of possibilities but theres only so much 
> power 
> you can get from one cylinder 
> before you think maybe more cylinders would be better for this? 
> Imagine if 
> car engines were only allowed 
> to have one cylinder! I've driven French cars and believe me it 
> wouldn't be 
> good! lol 
> 
> > You never know...  Of course, if you open the source, Celoxica 
> can nick 
> your ideas, even without nicking 
> > the source-code can't they? 
> 
> The idea of opening the source will be for everybody to be able to 
> use it 
> (or nick it as you call it) but 
> then how would Celoxica and others expect to charge so much for 
> something 
> thats 'public property'? Do you 
> think that people would get away with charging $25,000 for a copy 
> of the 
> Linux Kernel? I will be a little while before I open the source 
> even in 
> ideal conditions alas. Apart from writing it I will have to check 
> that any technique I use doesn't infringe on copyrights from my 
> previous 
> programming days, then I have to 
> clean it up. Don't want everyday laughing at me do I? But my main 
> point is 
> $25,000 a year for any program 
> is just taking the P*** out of us. If thats what they think their 
> program is 
> worth then they can charge 
> that for it, if I can do mine and make it open source then I will. 
> I think 
> more people should be writing 
> programs in hardware rather than programs that run on programs (CPU 
> cores) 
> in hardware (no offence Damjan 
> lol). Will also boost the parallelism of code which I am a big fan 
> of. 
> 
> > >Handel-C is copyright of Celoxica, Buffy-C hmmm might be 
> copyright of me 
> ;-) 
> 
> > I've never objected to Handel-C actually :-)  You maybe want 
> to find 
> something completely different... 
> > or not as you like! 
> 
> Handel-C is copyright of Mr. Page or Celoxica, whichever obviously 
> we can't 
> use it, another company does 
> SystemC and I think theres also CycleC but I have an idea for a 
> name (won't 
> tempt name-claim-jumpers by 
> mentioning it but its pretty good). 
> 
> > Cheers, 
> > Martin 
> 
> All input gratefully received as always. 
> 
> Paul McFeeters 
> 
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