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Mike Orr [sluggoster at gmail.com]
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:46 AM, Jon Dugan <jdugan@x1024.net> wrote:
> John DeRosa wrote: > > EGO diligo utriusque intentio, tamen EGO ventus virga per a tenuis > > margin. Gratias ago vos pro effectus is! Quam can EGO transporto vos > > nonnullus viaticus ut destituo vestri sumptus? > > I am afraid my latin is paltry at best, so I had to rely on machine translation: > > I to value highly both intention , nothwithstanding I wind a green twig very a > thin margin. Give thanks you for rendered this! How can I send you some > pertaining to a journey when to place your expenses?
I was stunned that some of it looked exactly like Esperanto:
tamen : however ventus: would have vented (though "ventumus" is traditional for this) virga: virgin (adjective) per: by means of pro: because of transporto: transportation -is : (past tense verb) -us: (conditional tense verb) vesti (dropping r): to clothe tenis (dropping u): held
I've heard that "tamen" came from Latin but this here's proof. I think "sed" (but) also comes from Latin.
Taking the English and making it grammatical results in this Esperanto:
Mi tre sxatas ambaux intencojn, tamem mi volvas verdan brancxeton mallargxe margxene. Dankon pro prezenti tion cxi! Kiel mi povos sendi al vi monon por via viagxo?
Translating that back into English makes:
I much value both intentions, however I wind a green twig narrow-marginly [1]. Thanks for rendering this! How can I send you money for your journey?
[1] That means as little in Esperanto as it does in English, but I don't know what else "very a thin margin" means.
I had some trouble with "render" in the computer sense because there was no obvious equivalent. realize: realigi draw: desegni make: fari present/introduce: prezenti But these didn't sufficiently express "make a copy from prepared instructions" as opposed to making something original. But one of Webster's definitions for "render" is "to reproduce or represent by artistic or verbal means : depict", which is one of the meanings of "prezenti" so I went with that.
-- Mike Orr <sluggoster@gmail.com>
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 07:55:15AM -0800, Mike Orr wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:46 AM, Jon Dugan <jdugan@x1024.net> wrote: > > John DeRosa wrote: > > > EGO diligo utriusque intentio, tamen EGO ventus virga per a tenuis > > > margin. Gratias ago vos pro effectus is! Quam can EGO transporto vos > > > nonnullus viaticus ut destituo vestri sumptus? > > > > I am afraid my latin is paltry at best, so I had to rely on machine translation: > > > > I to value highly both intention , nothwithstanding I wind a green twig very a > > thin margin. Give thanks you for rendered this! How can I send you some > > pertaining to a journey when to place your expenses? > > I was stunned that some of it looked exactly like Esperanto:
Why? From what I recalled, and as confirmed by Wikipedia, Esperanto is "...a language lexically predominantly Romanic... the vocabulary derives primarily from the Romance languages." Seems like the most probable projection of what you'd get when comparing the two languages is exactly what you got.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
Mike Orr [sluggoster at gmail.com]
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:23 AM, Ben Okopnik <ben@linuxgazette.net> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 07:55:15AM -0800, Mike Orr wrote: > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:46 AM, Jon Dugan <jdugan@x1024.net> wrote: > > > John DeRosa wrote: > > > > EGO diligo utriusque intentio, tamen EGO ventus virga per a tenuis > > > > margin. Gratias ago vos pro effectus is! Quam can EGO transporto vos > > > > nonnullus viaticus ut destituo vestri sumptus? > > > > > > I am afraid my latin is paltry at best, so I had to rely on machine translation: > > > > > > I to value highly both intention , nothwithstanding I wind a green twig very a > > > thin margin. Give thanks you for rendered this! How can I send you some > > > pertaining to a journey when to place your expenses? > > > > I was stunned that some of it looked exactly like Esperanto: > > Why? From what I recalled, and as confirmed by Wikipedia, Esperanto is > "...a language lexically predominantly Romanic... the vocabulary derives > primarily from the Romance languages." Seems like the most probable > projection of what you'd get when comparing the two languages is exactly > what you got.
Most of the vocabulary comes from modern Romance languages. Some stuff does come directly from Latin ("post" being the most common), but it's rare enough that it's an oddity.
Zamenhof was pretty random in sometimes choosing words in their ancient form (post = after, patro = father), sometimes with French idiosyncracies (preta = ready, instead of presta), and sometimes with German idiosyncracies (lasi = to let, instead of lati), for no apparent reason. I'm sure there are Russian idiosyncracies too though I can't think of any off the top of my head except:
okopniki = to be a vicious pirate on the high seas perle okopniki = to do the same while using Perl, or in a Perl-like manner (e.g., shouting Haiku at your enemies)
-- Mike Orr <sluggoster@gmail.com>